Bye Bye Craigslist :-(

It’s with a heavy heart that I must announce that PadMapper is no longer including Craigslist rental listings – they’re currently being wiped from the search index. I recently received a Cease and Desist letter from Craigslist, and wasn’t able to get a meeting or convince Craigslist’s lawyer that PadMapper was beneficial to Craigslist and apartment hunters in general. They allow mobile apps to display their listings if you buy a license from them, but not websites.

If you or any of your friends that PadMapper has helped would like to weigh in and tell them how PadMapper has helped you search through Craigslist, you can contact them at:

jim@craigslist.org – Jim Buckmaster, CEO
craig@craigslist.org – Craig Newmark, Founder

If you do contact them, please, please keep it civil. Perhaps if they see how many people PadMapper has helped, they’ll be willing to consider changing their minds.

PadMapper still has a lot of other sources, I’ll be adding more, and I’ll keep mapping pads, but it’s a sad day for pad mapping and apartment hunting. Craigslist is a really important source of apartment listings, and I hope we can get it back someday.

Thanks everyone,
Eric ☮

UPDATE: Many of you have asked me how you can post to PadMapper now that Craigslist is gone. I just posted about PadLister, a completely free way to post directly to PadMapper. I still want to get Craigslist back on there, but in the meantime, it’d be great if you guys could encourage any landlords you know to post their vacancies on PadLister as well (they should, of course, continue to post on Craigslist). Alternately, you can post to Oodle, RentalHomesPlus, Rent.com, ApartmentFinder, or one of the more local sources PadMapper picks up. Of these, Oodle is also free.

UPDATE 2:
If your area is looking empty without CList, you may want to enable Rent.com’s listings to show up. Look under “Show More Filters” and check that on if it’s not.

UPDATE 3:
I’m bringing Craigslist listings back! Here’s the blog post.

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402 Comments

  1. Alexis S
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Just sent an email! Searching on Craigslist alone resulted in a high number of scam results. Roughly 90% of apartment postings I clicked on out were A) scams to sign up for credit monitoring services, B) attempts to get me to sign up and pay for apartment hunting services, or C) the “I am living abroad so send me a cashier’s check and I’ll mail you the keys” scam.

    Padmapper allowed me to visualize apartment locations in a way that was not possible via Craigslist alone. By comparing prices against geography, I was able to determine fair market rates for different neighborhoods and therefore avoid most of the scams (which generate click-throughs with low rental rates, therefore preying disproportionately on low-income tenants).

    • Allyson
      Posted June 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      I emailed as well. Posting the text here, in case anyone doesn’t want to write their own:

      “Salutations!

      I just wanted to express my disappointment that Craigslist has chosen to disallow Padmapper from reposting their listings. When I first began apartment hunting, Craigslist was a very intimidating place to look. I know that there are many good listings, but it’s very difficult for someone unfamiliar with the area to decipher where listings are located (in comparison to my university). Using Padmapper made me feel comfortable looking at listings and even contacting a few landlords. To me, it seems like this is good business for Craigslist, increasing the number of people who look at their original posts and encouraging more people to post there.

      Now that I’ve been spoiled by the really nice interface on Padmapper, I do not think I will be returning to Craigslist. I warmly encourage you to reopen communication with Padmapper and work out an arrangement that would be mutually beneficial.”

  2. skube
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    That sucks! I’m curious to why http://www.housingmaps.com/ is still online though.

    • Posted July 9, 2012 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      Seems obvious it is because they didn’t get or process their C&D letter yet.

  3. Sean F.
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Just wrote craigslist an honest letter detailing how customers feel about this. I hope these help you get the support you need. PadMapper is awesome and my search just got infinitely harder thanks to CL. Hopefully we can restore functionality.

    Cheers

  4. Tatiana
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Hi! I love padmapper and I just sent a very nice e-mail to them letting them know of how awesome and helpful padmapper was to me in many occasions of house hunting. I’ve used it many times, recommended to friends and I totally support this tool.
    Hope it works because I’m looking for a new place and it would not be the same without craigslist listings displayed on padmapper.

    best,

    Tatiana

  5. H. K.
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Craigslist is an amazingly popular source to search for listings, but it lacks the crucial functionality of precisely locating available homes. In particular, city dwellers that rely on public transit will find the PadMapper + Craigslist combination extraordinary helpful. After sending an email briefly outlining the consumer benefits to the allowing the unity, I sent them a link to this page so that they are aware of the powerful potential impact they can make.

    Thanks PadMapper!

  6. Diagger
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Just sent this.
    Dear Jim and Craig,

    I recently learned that Craigslist asked Padmapper to stop using their site information. First of all I’d like to bring about the benefits that Padmapper provides in what the sustainable transportation arena is seen as a tool for helping people make informed decisions on where best to live, or in other words: allowing them to realize the real impact of their commute, choosing to live near transit lines and in walkable neighborhoods (via the walkscore).

    It’s a real pity than a win-win situation, where Craigslist is maximizing it’s own utility (profit in this case) by allowing a developer like padmapper do work which Craigslist is not willing to do (adding geographic information layers on top of people’s homes) and other features, is blocked by a decision which is not based on a commensurate and rational cost-benefit analysis of the situation. I understand that rules such as the ones you have in your terms of use are meant to be followed, but sometimes rules have to change depending on the historical context, which in your area quickly evolves, or be able to apply some type of judgement when enforcing them. As someone pointed out – “Craigslist should at least begin thinking on creating an API and charging a fee for it, or figuring out some sort of business model around that API”.

    I could go on and on listing the benefits, but I am sure that you know all these better than I do, so it would be pointless.

    On the long-run this decision will bring you more damage than benefit, as you are turning your allies into competitors.

    Hope these arguments can help you have a second thought.

    Best

    • Kendra
      Posted June 29, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

      I was wondering why my search results were so few! I sent this just moments ago. I hope it helps!:

      Good evening Craig and Jim,

      I am writing to you in regard to Craigslist ads no longer being shown on Padmapper.com. I am saddened by this news and would like to share my personal reasons why I, as a Craigslist and Padmapper user, benefited from the previous partnership between the two entities.

      I give kudos to the team at Craigslist for what it provides. It has been a great tool for me for years to buy and sell the products and services I need. I’ve found everything from a new couch to a wonderful group of roommates to live with. I am currently searching for a new place to reside, and Craigslist is always my first stop on my search.

      However, one thing I have always craved from Craigslist is the ability to map all of its current listings GoogleMaps-style. Padmapper provided that when Craigslist did not, so when I discovered that Padmapper could compile Craigslist search results in this manner, I was very excited! Padmapper enhances the Craigslist apartment search tool by creating the ability for users to immediately see where properties within their parameters were located. I loved that because I was getting tired of the guesswork it took to determine key words in the search toolbar for Craigslist to limit my query to specific neighborhoods. Even after hours of guessing and checking, Craigslist returns would still include properties that were nowhere near where I wanted to be.

      Padmapper effectively eliminated that. With Padmapper, all Craigslist posts would be accessible through a conveniently dropped pin on the map. It saved me time by quickly weeding out properties that were too far away from where I preferred to be, and allowed me to weed out properties in neighborhoods I don’t want to live in. Padmapper allows your users to more easily determine whether they’ll pursue a lead on your website when they can immediately see that it’s in a location they recognize, prefer, or are willing to settle for.

      It cut out the hassle of reading through posts that don’t include addresses because posts without addresses don’t show up on Padmapper. All of us on the hunt for a new apartment have been through this disappointment: finding a quality listing on Craigslist with the amenities we’re seeking only to find a very vague location provided toward the bottom of the post. We make the call to the property manager only to discover that the location is well outside the area we’d expected or wanted. It is frustrating to both the potential renter and the potential land lord, and complicates the apartment search for your users. Padmapper makes it easy for your users to avoid those time-wasting follow-ups.

      Padmapper is an invaluable tool for relocation, and I think that Craigslist and its users could benefit greatly by utilizing it as a tool on the Craigslist apartment/home search sites. I hope that you’ll reconsider your Cease and Desist order against Padmapper. As a loyal Craigslist user, I believe that Padmapper would be a great asset to your apartment/home search category on the site unless such tools are developed by Craigslist to emulate the services Padmapper provides for this feature.

      My most humble regards,

  7. danielle
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    this TOTALLY sucks. i come on PM a couple times a month just to see if there’s a better apt deal in my area. it’s how i found my current apt. and the apt was listed on CL! when i didn’t see any listings, i knew something was wrong. after i realized what happened, i went to CL to see what apt listings they had today, and i had to give up after about 3 minutes. there is absolutely no way to filter through all of the crap on their site. or even see where the crap is on a map…

    is there anyway for PM to just show the CL listings through the mobile app?

    • Posted June 30, 2012 at 5:42 am | Permalink

      Hi Danielle, I’d like to figure this all out for the website and the mobile app, if possible. In the meantime, if you hit “Reset Filters”, that should enable the other sources, so at least the map won’t be empty.

      • patrick
        Posted July 2, 2012 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

        eric,

        are you considering getting a mobile license or whatchamacallit and making a mobile app that can access CL listings ? i would love that and definitely be willing to pay for that service.

        i’ve used your site to find my last 3 apartments, oakland, los angeles, and even my current one in vancouver. when i came to your site today because i must move, one again, several hundred miles away in a few months, i was very disappointed to find out CL has enacted legal action against padmapper =( so i sent jim and craig a short and respectful email.

        great site and thanks for your digital apt hunting help in the past!
        all the best,
        patrick

  8. elle m.
    Posted June 29, 2012 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Wow, this is unfortunate. I’m glad I was able to take advantage of using CL on Padmapper while it was still allowed! I just wrote them a nice email explaining my personal experience in using CL alone, and how using CL on PadMapper helped me avoid spam and rentals that were listed in the wrong neighborhoods.

    Good luck, Eric!

  9. L Col
    Posted June 29, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Bummer. I sent the message below to both of the individuals you mentioned. Hopefully someone listens, because Padmapper really rocks!

    As a fan and frequent user of Craigslist, I urge you to reconsider your refusal to allow Padmapper.com to link to Craigslist postings.

    Real estate is about “location, location, location.” By mapping the apartment offerings in a particular area, Padmapper transforms a Craigslist housing search (which often entails floundering through a sea of unhelpfully-titled postings) into a remarkably efficient and pleasant experience. I have been searching for months for an apartment in a location where real estate is tight, and although I much appreciate the service that Craigslist offers, Padmapper.com has been a lifesaver. My search time was cut by 2/3 easily, and time means a lot to people in this society.

    Padmapper is a service that benefits Craigslist and its users, bringing more people to the site and thereby increasing its utility. Please allow Padmapper to recommence providing this useful connection.

  10. Spencer P
    Posted June 30, 2012 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    That’s unfortunate! I’ve sent an email.

  11. Posted June 30, 2012 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I emailed them also.

  12. A
    Posted June 30, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Why do you think Craigslist is hiring front-end developers with “integrated mapping experience?” They’re not going to let you do something on another site that they can do themselves.

    • Posted July 2, 2012 at 4:31 am | Permalink

      Yeah, that might be why. This has been around for over three years now, though, and they’ve left it alone all that time.

      • A
        Posted July 6, 2012 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

        It’s all about when they have the resources/time to get around to it. I’m sad to see Padmapper so bare, but I have a feeling CL will get their map interface up and running soon. At least I hope so… finding apartments is a pain in the butt without it!

        Maybe you guys should apply. :)

  13. Chris
    Posted July 1, 2012 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Oh no!

    Now Padmapper is being used for (pay) agencies such as WestsideRentals!!! And they only advertise to get you to sign up with them. It is useless to see their phoney listings on Padmapper!

    This will be the death of Padmapper.

    Please, please, please don’t let those type of scam and pay companies creep in, because that’s why we all tried to avoid using CL directly in the first place!

    • Posted July 2, 2012 at 4:32 am | Permalink

      Oh? If they’re posting on PadLister, you should be able to just email those listings directly without signing up for WSR. Is that not the case?

  14. Neil B
    Posted July 1, 2012 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Have you considered turning PadMapper into a mobile app? I think you’ve got enough support here to help buy a license from CL.

    Assuming it’s that easy :\

  15. Cheri
    Posted July 1, 2012 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Sent a letter, hope they reconsider an arrangement with Padmapper. I will be spreading the word to use Padmapper directly.

  16. Alan Chase
    Posted July 1, 2012 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Hi – I’m sure I know the answer but I thought I’d ask anyway – has anybody that’s sent an email to Craigslist received a reply?

  17. EJ
    Posted July 1, 2012 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    email sent!

  18. PJ McFlur
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    ‘Keep the internet free.’

    Hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. Ogadi
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Man…this really sucks! I have been a huge PadMapper evangelist, and now when I am in greatest need of it, this happens?!?!? I really hope something is figured out! I’ll send an email too!

  20. Sarah Wolfsont
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    I just sent them an email too.

    Could someone explain the logic behind the licensing limitations? It seems silly to me that in this day in age they’re differentiating between a mobile app and a website. (…responsive design anyone?)

  21. Drew
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Just Sent an email.

    Good luck.

    —-
    Messrs Buckmaster and Newmark-

    I’m writing to express my disappointment that Craig’s list has disallowed the display of listings via the third part, Padmapper.

    I find Craigslist an invaluable resource in my annual apartment hunt and after discovering Padmapper this past year and the utility it builds into Craigslist, I was positive I would never have to use a rental agency again and was convinced that searching for an apartment could never be easier. Thus, you can imagine I was extremely disappointed to find out this past week that Padmapper is no longer able to display listings via Craigslist.

    In my past queries, a good proportion of the apartment listings on Craigslist have been misleading (e.g. the physical location of the apartment) or have appeared to be outright scams (e.g. a person living overseas requesting money in exchange for a key to be dropped in the mail). Padmapper’s integration with Craigslist listings not only allowed me to easily discriminate between apartments by neighborhood, but it allowed me to establish search criterion that Craigslist does not currently facilitate. In a phrase, using Padmapper made using Craigslist more time effective.

    Though this email may be in vein, I would implore you to consider allowing Craigslist listings to appear on Padmapper or to consider integrating a similar utility into your apartment listings.

    Sincerely,

  22. Aaron
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand entirely. This snipped is taken straight from the CL Terms & Conditions. What clause are you in violation of exactly?

    “…noncommercial public archives will be entitled to access craigslist without individual written agreements executed with CL that specifically authorize an exception to this prohibition if, in all cases and individual instances: (a) they provide a direct hyperlink to the relevant craigslist website, service, forum or content; (b) they access craigslist from a stable IP address using an easily identifiable agent; and (c) they comply with CL’s robots.txt file; provided however, that CL may terminate this limited exception as to any search engine or public archive (or any person or entity relying on this provision to access craigslist without their own written agreement executed with CL), at any time and in its sole discretion, upon written notice, including, without limitation, by email notice.”

  23. Libbey
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    I sent a nasty email to craigslist. What jerks! Seriously, I just want them to suck it and use other searches, their site is not convenient, yours is. They shouldve been happy people were using padmapper to see stupid craigslist posts. I hope this works out for you, Istarted a boycott on facebook, sharing the word. IM SO MAD ABOUT THIS. Seriously i search daily for the perfect place to rent, and now my search just came to an abrupt halt. No offense, but the craigslist postings were my favorite!

  24. Dan
    Posted July 2, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Is it possible that CraigsList felt threatened by your PadLister service? In essence you’re using the web site to serve Craigslist listings, and in the mean time promoting your own listing service as well.

    I hope this gets resolved because PadMapper was a very useful addition to CraigsList.

  25. Posted July 3, 2012 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    Hi,
    I just came to say that I also sent a (nice and polite) mail to Graig. My niece luckily managed to find a place in New York before this happened! (for us, relatives in Finland, Padmapper integration was good news)

    best regards
    Irmeli

  26. Adam
    Posted July 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Just emailed them as well. Leave it to CL to make sure things don’t progress. If they had it their way everything would stay the exact same and never improve with a dash of convolution… I believe it is their business motto ;)

  27. JB
    Posted July 3, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    I just sent this:

    Dear Jim and Craig,

    Padmapper is the best thing that has happened to the apartment\home search market since Zilpy.com went by the wayside in late 2008.

    Padmapper makes it easy to search by location for rentals and aids in bypassing incorrectly entered or simply nonexistent addresses on rentals posted in CraigsList. It helps someone to quickly visualize the rental location rather than having to use a mapping tool to search (sometimes fruitlessly) for the correct location of the rental.

    I sincerely feel that CraigsList is doing itself a disservice by barring Padmapper from enhancing CraigsList rental listings by mapping them.

    I encourage you to seriously reconsider your action in regard to having your listings linked to Padmapper.

    in the interest of enhancing your business,

    JB

  28. Posted July 4, 2012 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Hi! I’ve been following your website for a while now and finally got the bravery to go ahead and give you a shout out from Huffman Texas! Just wanted to say keep up the good job!

  29. pdc
    Posted July 4, 2012 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Email sent!

  30. Shelby
    Posted July 4, 2012 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    My letter to Jim and Craig:

    Hello!

    I am a longtime fan of Craigslist. To date, here are a list of things which have come into my life thanks to Craigslist:

    - Two cars
    - One fantastic partner of almost 5 years
    - A washer and dryer (which were subsequently stolen, I posted that on CL’s missed connections, to complete the cycle)
    - Two couches
    - Two bed frames
    - Two bikes
    - One dresser (and one that I picked up and returned the same day, it’s NOT okay to put cat-pee dressers on Craigslist without warning!)
    - Several bookshelves
    - An oddly-shaped chair
    - A cartop carrier
    - Dishes
    - A really great job
    - Countless giggles from the best-of section
    - Seven apartments (between my aforementioned Craigslisted partner and myself)
    - Not to mention all of the things which Craigslisters have graciously taken off my hands!

    It’s the apartment bit which brings me here today. I’m a law student in search of housing. My last apartment (not off of Craigslist, which must have been the downfall) was awful. I’m sort-of familiar with the town, but not enough to know where every house is based on the street name. I checked Padmapper for this religiously. Padmapper was the easiest, best thing to ever happen to Craigslist… and now it’s gone. I understand you don’t want them taking your product blah blah blah, but honestly? Padmapper made Craigslist apartments so much easier to use that I can’t understand how you don’t see that it was more of an asset to you than a moocher. The thought of searching for a house on Craigslist without Padmapper is so scary that I’m avoiding it altogether, which is not good, because I need a house in about 3 weeks. With Craigslist, there were perhaps 50-75 available housing options for me (Salem, Oregon, under $1k, allows dogs, keyword: yard). Now, zero.

    In summary, Craigslist without Padmapper is kind of like a foreign country without a map or speaking the language– terrifying. Please restore your connection with Padmapper.

    Thanks for your consideration,


    Shelby

  31. Randy
    Posted July 4, 2012 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Don’t stop using craigslist.

    They won’t sue and if they do you’d win. Just stop using their name on the site. In fact, don’t even let people see where the apartments are coming from. You’ll cover your butt. Otherwise, without craigslist, this site is pretty useless which is a shame because I’ve used it a lot.

  32. Ed
    Posted July 4, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    You should consider getting some legal advice on this matter and not be turned away because of a cease and desist letter. Your use of craigslist is not outright copyright infringement, you are improving on the design and therefore you will likely be able to avert any legal recourse craigslist can take against you. Seriously, go see an attorney about this.

  33. James
    Posted July 4, 2012 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Here’s my email I sent to Craigslist:

    “Craig and Jim,

    I am contacting you regarding the recent action taken against the extremely useful website PadMapper.com.

    It came to my attention that a cease and desist order has been issued to PadMapper regarding their map-oriented and organized re-listing of rental postings on Craigslist.

    I would like to express my remorse and confusion as to why Craigslist might take issue with a third party site that no doubt increased traffic to Craigslist, while at the same time making apartment or rental home hunting easier than ever.

    Given the multitude of listings that appear on Craigslist, PadMapper’s pragmatic approach to organizing and filtering postings has made relocating much easier for many of my friends as well as myself. I moved to Los Angeles two years ago and I was able to find the listings for both residences I have rented in LA on Craigslist, via PadMapper.

    As opposed to taking issue with PadMapper and requesting that they cease and desist use of information provided on Craigslist, and ultimately encouraging competition between you and PadLister, I would suggest that forming a relationship with PadMapper would be beneficial to both parties.

    Happy 4th of July!”

  34. Melissa
    Posted July 5, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Ok so I probably shouldn’t have put that last line in there, but seriously- what else could be motivating them?
    _________________________________

    Good evening,

    I am an archaeologist who has had to move fairly frequently in my life. I like craiglist for it’s ability to find places with no lease to live, but it is hard to see where many of the location are without having to constantly opening us new windows- especially tricky if I have little knowledge of the new city. Linking to padmapper has ALLOWED me to use craiglist much more often, not hinder it!

    Please reconsider this start-up, frankly I’m puzzled as to why one would want to shut down a site that increases traffic to your own site. It’s like refusing for google to show your site in it’s results (padmapper always links to your site), unless you’re considering stealing it’s ideas.

    I hope to learn why craiglist is choosing to pursue this route.

    Sincerely,

  35. Posted July 6, 2012 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Eric, do you think you could post a copy of the letter? Thanks!

  36. Posted July 6, 2012 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Here is my letter:

    “Good morning,

    My name is Dave M. and I am an avid user of Craigslist. I recently discovered that you have issued a cease and desist letter to Eric at PadMapper.com, and I am writing to express my disappointment in these actions. Eric has created a great product in PadMapper, and a portion of it’s success was due to its ability to effectively interface and bring location based life to Craigslist’s posts. One of the biggest short-comings when using Craigslist for apartment hunting is its sparse and anemic UI. It doesn’t allow your users to visualize the properties that they are researching in relation to the city they are searching within. Now, I understand that completely revamping your UI for one section of posts is unreasonable; there is too high a cost with too little a reward. In a perfect world there would be a hard working individual that could write an entire UI for your apartment ads without costing you a dime. Wait…

    In all seriousness, PadMapper is noting but beneficial for Craigslist. Eric’s users start their search there, but inevitably end on your site to email the property owner/manager of the listing. Sending a cease and desist letter to him for creating PadMapper is tantamount to sending one to Larry Page because there are Google search results that link back to Craigslist. You are essentially and arbitrarily destroying one of the best things to happen to Craigslist since you incorporated in 1999.

    All of that being said, I give you an opportunity. I understand that an overzealous young lawyer may have sent out the letter without first realizing the repercussions it would have on the company. If this is the case, simply send Eric a letter of apology and allow him to keep driving massive business to your site. If you actually support this folly and do not have a problem with the decision that was made, then I recommend you place a large chunk of money into a stable retirement account. Why? With business practices like that, I can’t imagine Craigslist will have the term success you were hoping for.”

    Hopefully all of these letter will have an impact.

  37. Andrew
    Posted July 8, 2012 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    I just emailed Jim at Craigstlist expressing my thoughts on how PadMapper has made Craigslist searching so much more efficient.

  38. Chris D
    Posted July 8, 2012 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Eric, are you willing to post the text of the Cease & Desist letter? It would be interesting to see exactly what legal theory they believe that they can hold you liable under. If it is for a violation of their terms of service, than it is presumably for breach of contract. While courts have been reluctant to find that browse-wrap terms of service constitute a binding contract in the first place, it is a fundamental principle of contract law that the aggrieved party must prove damages resulting from the breach, and can only recover a judgement, in money (not usually an injunction) limited to the amount of their damages. Here, I cannot imagine what damages they would claim, especially considering that you are driving traffic to their site.

    If the C&D letter sheds some light on this, it would be quite helpful in determining whether or not they have any genuine legal claim.

    On the other hand, if their claim is for intellectual property violations, this would be even more suspect, as by their own terms-of-service they have only a non-exclusive license to the content of the posting (ownership of the copyright remains in the poster) and thus the poster retains the right to control future copying by others.

  39. Sylvia
    Posted July 8, 2012 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Here is my polite email to Craig and Jim:

    Hi Craig and Jim,

    I’m writing to let you know how useful padmapper listings have been in my searches for apartments here in Brooklyn. I love both your websites and they really work hand in hand together.

    Eric seems like a really nice guy. Do you think that you two can work out your differences and at least give him a chance to come up with a solution so the two of you can get back together.

    Thanks for listening!! And best of luck.

    Sylvia

    Look for the ridiculous in everything and you will find it… Jules Renard 1890

  40. Lauren
    Posted July 8, 2012 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    Something told me to check out padmapper this morning – probably the influx of wasps in my apartment that my landlady won’t do anything about – and I was sad to see the news. Just sent this email:

    Gentlemen!

    Padmapper is awesome! I found my current fantastic apartment via Padmapper. It was a Craigslist posting with no pictures, so I normally never would have considered it, but because it was right there on a map on Padmapper, I took a chance, and sure enough ended up going with this one through Craigslist.

    Padmapper is an invaluable resource for apartment hunters, especially here in Los Angeles, where the metropolis is far too huge to know all the streets and areas by name. Please reconsider and allow Padmapper to continue mapping Craigsist postings. It is a mutually beneficial relationship!

  41. Ari
    Posted July 8, 2012 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    The honest thing for them to do would have been to acquire you guys–why did they not follow in the footsteps of other more successful tech companies (Facebook, Twitter, Linkden etc) and just AQUIRE the competition instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Facebook tried it once and then decided it was easier to acquire the talent. I wish you all the best of luck and I’ve sent an email to Jim & Craig.

  42. Doug
    Posted July 9, 2012 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    This is par for the Craigslist course. They don’t care about their users, only the revenue from paid listings. There’s a reason why the website still looks like it’s from 2003 and that they’ve resisted integration, mobile and product development.

    It’ll take a murder for them to change… (Google the discontinued adult services and murdered masseuse for that story)

  43. David
    Posted July 29, 2012 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Just read the NYT article by Nick Bilton (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/when-craigslist-blocks-innovations-disruptions/).

    Wow, I am simply stunned – particularly after bringing up Padmapper the first time, it’s beautiful.

    Hang tough Eric, hang tough.

  44. Posted September 22, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Craigslist has just now added a mapping feature to their apartment listings.

    But I can’t get it to show more than just the one listing per map page.

    At least they are working on it.

    If more and more independent landlords used Padlister, CL would become obsolete.

    The way Padmapper gets paid through prospective tenant credit applications is ideal. This money would get paid anyway to the landlord who then pays his credit service, but Padmapper handles it for landlords frictionlessly.

    If CL keeps moving toward paid job ads and paid housing ads in all markets, the Padmapper business model becomes all the more compelling.

26 Trackbacks

  1. [...] Craigslist: Craigslist: Why did Craigslist send PadMapper a cease and desist letter?http://blog.padmapper.com/2012/0…Post   Add AnswerBIU     @    UpdateLink to [...]

  2. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  3. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  4. [...] just read http://blog.padmapper.com/2012/06/22/bye-bye-craigslist/. This is sad! Do you know how relieved I was when I discovered padmapper? It’s so much easier [...]

  5. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  6. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  7. [...] “Craigslist” from the equation. According to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  8. [...] popular apartment hunting site PadMapper says that it will no longer be including results from Craigslist in its database after it received a cease & desist from the site’s lawyers. PadMapper [...]

  9. [...] apartment-finding site PadMapper. Chief executive Eric DeMenthon made the announcement today on the PadMapper blog that all Craiglist-sourced rentals are being deleted from the PadMapper [...]

  10. [...] apartment-finding site PadMapper. Chief executive Eric DeMenthon made the announcement today on the PadMapper blog that all Craiglist-sourced rentals are being deleted from the PadMapper [...]

  11. [...] apartment-finding site PadMapper. PadMapper Chief executive Eric DeMenthon said today on the PadMapper blog that all Craiglist-sourced rentals are being deleted from the PadMapper [...]

  12. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  13. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  14. [...] popular apartment hunting site PadMapper says that it will no longer be including results from Craigslist in its database after it received a cease & desist from the site’s lawyers. PadMapper [...]

  15. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  16. [...] apartment-finding site PadMapper. PadMapper Chief executive Eric DeMenthon said today on the PadMapper blog that all Craiglist-sourced rentals are being deleted from the PadMapper [...]

  17. [...] to an account that creator Eric DeMenthon published on the PadMapper blog, and that he elaborated on over email, Craigslist’s lawyer sent him a cease-and-desist letter [...]

  18. [...] Well, it looks like you can no longer use padmapper to filter out the bogus locator ads. Bye Bye Craigslist :-( [...]

  19. [...] rental listings -– they’re currently being wiped from the search index,” reads a blog post from PadMapper’s CEO Eric DeMenthon. “I recently received a Cease and Desist letter [...]

  20. By Apartment search startup blocked by Craigslist on June 23, 2012 at 9:38 am

    [...] primarily by one young entrepreneur, Eric DeMenthon.DeMenthon wrote a blog post entitled, “Bye Bye Craigslist,” in which he said, “It’s with a heavy heart that I must announce that PadMapper is [...]

  21. [...] Just read the following blog post from Padmapper after I tried to look for housing. Bye Bye Craigslist :-( This is super frustrating and sad! I love the ability to look for housing in a specific area, and [...]

  22. [...] Craigslist rental listings -– they’re currently being wiped from the search index,” reads a blog post from PadMapper’s CEO Eric DeMenthon. “I recently received a Cease and Desist letter from [...]

  23. [...] With Craigslist gone, PadMapper is likely missing a lot of the best sublet/small landlord options, so I’d really like to get small landlords to list directly. [...]

  24. [...] PadMapper solved that problem by plotting locations for you.According to PadMappers blog post, http://blog.padmapper.com/2012/0…, apparently they even tried to have a meeting to discuss the issue, and Craigslist didn't [...]

  25. [...] &#959ld Craigslist—especially now th&#1072t &#1110t&#1109 listings n&#959 longer appear &#959n Padmapper. Here’s h&#959w t&#959 navigate th&#1077 [...]

  26. By Craigslist clusterfuck | KyleLibra.com on October 1, 2012 at 10:37 am

    [...] on board at Craigslist to build innovative features like this into the site. Instead they sent a cease and desist letter to Padmapper and threatened to sue if the site continued to use their data. The developer [...]

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